Talking life, philosophy, and basketball with Trey Kaufman-Renn and Professor Jan Cover
On a cold day at the start of the spring semester in the midst of a promising basketball season the College of Liberal Arts had the chance to sit down and talk with Philosophy major and Purdue star basketball player, Trey Kaufman-Renn and Professor of Philosophy Jan Cover. As you might expect when two Philosophers start talking, the conversation was insightful, had plenty of quips and witty banter, and was filled with passion for all things life, philosophy, and basketball.
Life
Known to each other as Trey and Cover, the two began by exploring how life brought them together, and how their shared love of philosophy and basketball makes any surface level differences fade away.
“I grew up in a small town, Sellersburg, Indiana,” Trey explained. “I’m from a large family that was a great support system, especially my mom…. She'd always drive me to games, and if I wasn't, you know, being a bad passenger and just sleeping on the other side of the car, we’d have conversations about all kinds of things, especially morality and ethics.”
So, the crossroad between philosophical thought and basketball was paved well before Trey came to Purdue. Thinking about what is truly important and morally right was instilled in Trey by his family, especially his mom. This is a point that Cover finds especially important.
“I tell my students, ‘Look, you better take this seriously,’” Cover said. “‘You must teach your kids these things. Teach them to think. Teach them to think about how they think.’”
“I didn’t even know that’s what we were doing, though,” Trey said. “I didn’t know philosophy was a thing; like a field you could study.”
Trey explained that when he was looking at which university he would attend, he wasn’t really looking at academics, he was looking at basketball programs first.
“I chose Purdue because of Coach Painter, honestly,” Trey said. Matt Painter, the head coach of the Purdue University men's basketball team, is a 1994 graduate of the College of Liberal Arts with a degree in Sociology.
“So, it wasn’t academics at first?” Cover asked.
“No, well, I mean, through Purdue I found philosophy, and that changed everything,” Trey said. “It wasn’t even a philosophy class at first. It was a prerequisite Transformative Text class and one of my teachers was a philosophy professor.”
Recently featured on PBS Newshour, Transformative Texts classes (SCLA 101 and 102) are the gateway classes for Purdue’s Cornerstone Certificate. The classes teach communication and critical thinking skills by reading the best that has been said and written over the centuries and from around the world, and they are taught by full-time faculty from nearly all College of Liberal Arts disciplines.
Trey continued, “It was Professor Rdzak, I believe.”
“Oh, Brandon Rdzak,” Cover chimed in. “He did his PhD with me. He’s still teaching in Cornerstone now… he’s a good dude.”
“Yeah, great guy,” Trey agreed.
“So, that’s why Todd called me. Todd Foster.” Cover continued, speaking of the Associate Director of Academic Support Services. “He said ‘we have this kid over here…’ and gave Trey’s name. ‘He’d like to talk to somebody in Philosophy because he’s not really happy with the major he has.’ So, we start talking, and you discover there is actually a CLA (College of Liberal Arts) department where it’s not only okay to ask questions like you asked yourself and your mom asked you growing up, but we positively encourage it. In fact, we would teach you to do even better at asking. That’s kind of cool!”
Trey agreed, “Yeah, I remember I asked you the question, ‘In basketball, you have these fundamentals. Everybody wants to know how to do a three-point shot. Everybody wants to know how to do, you know, between-the-legs-spin move shot or whatever. But they don't learn to dribble with the right hand first. So, my question that I came to you with was, what are those fundamentals of philosophy you need in order to progress in the things I want to do?’”
“Right; good. So you saw that there were the sort of spin-between-the-legs move of thought, of the intellect, that were going to require you first to be able to dribble, and you came to me and said ‘I want to know what the dribbling bits are so I can think about that other stuff someday,’” Cover reflected. “Very good. I like the analogy.”
Philosophy
Trey and Cover started working together in a class on the history of philosophy, particularly Early Modern Philosophy, focusing on 17th and 18th century European philosophy.
“But after you survived that class, we did everything under the sun in my office,” Cover said. “I remember one Saturday you came up here, and I looked at my watch and we had been talking for five hours. What a joy that was for me that a student would come by who's not taking a class that semester, and we’d just…talk, and think aloud.”
Trey agreed that it wasn’t about grades anymore. Now it was about thinking and learning together.
“We spent all of last semester talking about meta-metaphysics and then metaphysics,” Cover shared, then went on to explain that meta-metaphysics is the study of how to study metaphysics without making mistakes. So, you study meta-metaphysics before you study metaphysics. He continued, “It’s a lot of logic, how to reason carefully and so on, but it’s also a lot of philosophy language.”
This is important, because a lot of people don’t know what metaphysics is. “A lot of people think it’s like self-help or something,” Trey said.
Metaphysics can be defined loosely as the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.
Cover explained, “Metaphysics just got the word, because there was the Physics of Aristotle in the library of Alexandria or somewhere, then he wrote another volume… and he didn't put a title on… Metaphysics is ‘after-the-Physics…’ It got its name by accident.”
Trey and Cover then took some time to address the relationship between metaphysics and the ethical questions that started Trey down the road to philosophy back when his mom was driving him to and from his basketball games.
“Moral Realism says there are ethical universals,” Cover said. “Could you do serious ethical theory if you didn’t know how to do metaphysics?”
For Trey, the answer to that question is “no.” He explained that he needed to understand how to use basic philosophical tools in order to go deeper into what is really important and build on the ethics instilled in him by his family.
“I’m a values and ethics guy,” Trey explained. “I have a little brother, Jaylen, and I don't want him idolizing certain things. I want him idolizing other things. Like the people he talks about and wants to be like. It doesn't matter if they play in the NBA or did well in basketball. Who cares? He scored more points… He’s got a piece of hardware that’s collecting dust in the attic right now. So what? It's not as important as, you know, caring for people. It's not as important as, you know, starting a family.”
Cover agreed, “There is a hierarchy of what is really the most important thing in conducting our lives.”
“And basketball is just a game,” Trey said, with a grin. “I think Professor Cover has more interest in basketball than I do.”
The room erupted in laughter. “That might be true,” Cover said. “That’s… embarrassing!”
Basketball
“Basketball is the best sport ever invented,” Cover, a 28-year Purdue Basketball season ticket holder, said boldly. “It’s beautiful in both its complexity and its simplicity.”
“See, it’s true!” Trey said with a laugh.
“Don’t be too hard on me,” Cover said.
“No, it’s kind of cool having your professor… and someone who cares so much about you, care about your other hobbies,” Trey said. “I'll come to Cover, and he really wants to talk about basketball and how the game is going and how the team is doing. It's okay, [Purdue Basketball] is something that we take pride in here, and lately we've been very good at it, as well.”
“Maybe it’s because it’s a team sport, but it’s also a little bit like wrestling,” Cover said. “Somebody has the ball; an individual has the ball. Somebody's shooting; an individual has to shoot the ball. Somebody's blocking out, somebody's doing their part of a pick-and-roll… The mix of requirements of playing together as a team and doing your job, not somebody else's. Like, this isn't going to work if I don't do my job… So yeah, basketball… the Boilermakers, I’m a fan.”
Both Trey and Cover agreed that it’s fine to like or even love basketball, but it’s important to think about how it is valued in relation to the other parts of your life. As a student athlete and a professor, education is another area of great importance to Trey and Cover.
“You experience the CLA, mostly through the Philosophy Department, don’t you?” Cover asked.
“That and my Com minor,” Trey replied.
“No!” Cover said, throwing his arms in the air. “I’m leaving!” He teased.
“Yeah, but I’d say those are the two big things,” Trey said, with a laugh.
“Here's one thing [CLA] did for you, which you know happened,” Cover said. “Basketball practices under Painter nowadays have trended in the direction of happening after 2 or 2:30. So, many of our 400 level classes are at that time and you were, at no fault of your own, being put in a bind in getting your Philosophy degree… The College of Liberal Arts stepped up for you by urging the Philosophy Department to make an accommodation to get you 400 level instruction earlier in the day. I know you feel grateful for that.”
“100 percent,” Trey agreed.
“This is the way I think CLA and its departments are,” Cover continued. “They actually do want their people to get degrees. And if something's not working out, we will do everything we can to help them succeed.”
Through their banter, it became clear that Trey and Cover share a bond over many things in life even beyond Philosophy and basketball. They are able to connect because both Purdue Athletics and the College of Liberal Arts went out of their way to see Trey, not just as a basketball player and not just as a Philosophy student, but as an individual who can be defined in many ways. He is a brother and a son. He is a Boilermaker that the Purdue community will help succeed, just like any other Boilermaker. He is a philosopher who plays basketball really well.
As the two reflected on their long conversation, they worked to pull it all together.
“Here’s a question that will probably fall to the cutting room floor,” Cover said. “Is there a relationship between Philosophy and basketball?”
“Initially, no, not at all,” Trey said.
“And that’s okay,” Cover replied. “It’s okay to say there are two things that matter to me. There are lots of things that matter to me. Some more than others. So, the answer is kind of no.”
“But still, I’d say there is an aspect of Philosophy in everything. It’s a critical skill set,” Trey continued. “In basketball, it's very different than an individual sport. Like you said, you have individual goals and you have team goals, and as a basketball player, the question is, which one do you care about more? Can you sacrifice your stats or your playing time for the good of the team? Some people can, and that’s their choice. Some people can’t, and that’s their choice… Then, how are you going to cope in a locker room? How are you going to talk to and care for your teammates?”
“I like that,” Cover said.
“That’s what I like about Philosophy,” Trey continued. “For certain majors and certain disciplines, when you leave that discipline, you’re done. Philosophy isn’t like that. You take it with you. It's how you interact with some random person on the streets. It’s how you interact with your family members. It's how you interact with your coworkers.”
“And how you conduct your private life,” Cover agreed, thoughtfully stroking his beard as he considered Trey’s point.
“Exactly,” Trey confirmed. “It’s how you live your life. So, in a way, no, metaphysics is not going to help me at all with how to shoot a basketball. But in another way, yes, 100 percent.”